DUST Search - Attempts at Rationality

Maken Tosch wrote:

Ryan Noir wrote:

I would suggest one thing however, instead of focusing on working legion into the PC, take that and apply it toward Dust, assure the PS3 community that you are committed to the product by ensuring you will strongly look into deploying this to PS4. Fix the issues with Dust first, Legion isn't in a deployment state yet, so no need to rush getting that work done. Keep at least a good 80% of the dust team working on Dust and not Legion, in between major updates you can work on Legion. There needs to be an assurance that you will continue to provide a huge majority of dust resources to working on that game not project legion.

I don't think I agree with this. Dust was already living on borrowed time the moment it because a PS3 game. The PS3 is about to become outmoded pretty damn soon and its hardware is just no longer enough to help Dust become the game we all once hoped it would become.

Therefore to devote 80% of the team to a game that is already entering retirement is not the best use of resources in my opinion. Once Hilmar gives the green light, at the very least there needs to be about 50%-60% of the team working on Legion and then slowly growing to 80%-90% while downsizing the team for Dust over time. Besides, I have already decided to no longer play Dust on the PS3 as my character is now on cold storage waiting for the inevitable transfer to PC.


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Kondor Pendragon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.05.05 03:24:00 - [1] - Quote Okay. I haven't posted the past couple of days. I've followed the news, all the rage, all the non-rage, and I've had time to gather my own thoughts as well. This "letter" will rationally explain my thoughts and feelings on the situation, as well as some suggestions about topics that I will touch on. First off CCP, you've handled this whole situation terribly. The time of announcement was terrible. The where of the announcement was terrible. The mode of announcement was terrible. And the follow-up silence has not helped your case. To be completely honest, I don't know why these decisions were made, and frankly I don't care why. That's not an issue to me. From what I've heard, you should really take into consideration what your CPM and CSM suggest to you more, especially when it comes to relations with your community. As for the actual game of Legion? Cool game. I still like the concept. But the problem here is that you've sold your DUST players, especially the ones who play exclusively on consoles, Legion, but under a different name which seems to have now been chalked up as a failure to the point that you're making a brand new game. And it's not on the platform that your players play on. Despite the fact that you would have to work on building a largely new player base, this is just frustrating. And really, what makes it morally wrong is the fact that you've had these events that have pushed buying AURUM for Omega Boosters and whatnot leading up to this announcement that you must have known would be unpopular, with the knowledge that you are now making the game DUST players thought they were getting for the PC. So now, the way I see it, you have a few different groups. You have the group of people who are at least mostly okay with this whole thing. These people tend to be the ones who played EVE or have some kind of computer that would be able to run this new game, if it's given the green light and becomes a thing that will for sure happen. That's group one. Group two are the people who think this is all a huge outrage, many of which are the forum warriors we know so well. And the problem that this group has with Legion is the fact that they probably won't be able to play the game that they were always supposed to get, because either 1) they will not get a PC because they game on a console and that's all they play on, or 2) have the inability to get a PC that would be able to run the game due to time or money constraints, or other circumstances. This is the most vocal group we've seen on the forums, and they fully have the right to be as outraged as they are, because the time and money they invested in DUST is going to be put toward the product they were supposed to receive but will no longer be able to. And group number three consists of people who are on the fence. They either have a PC and can run the game, or have the ability to get one to play your game. However, their problems include worries about what happens to the time, money and effort they put into DUST when it comes to Legion. Also, they might be worried about the morality and trustworthiness of CCP now. That's group three and frankly, you'll need to put some effort into winning them over and convincing them to invest into Legion now. I, myself, fall into this group three. So as a member of the "on-the-fence" group, there are some things I think would be a good idea for CCP to do in order to smooth some things over with the players, both the ones who might play Legion and those who won't but are still hurt. These things include the following: 1. There really ought to be some kind of public apology for the way that this has all been handled. Whether or not CCP as a company thinks they are wrong, what matters is that the community that they built up thinks they were wrong in handling this the way it has been handled. The timing of the announcement and the following silence afterwards are the big issues here.
Kondor Pendragon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.05.05 03:25:00 - [2] - Quote The following pertain to the "on-the-fence" group as ideas to win them back over and apply to Group 1, since there is likely very little you can do to win back Group 2 if Legion gets the green light: 2. Character transfer needs to happen. Skill points, ISK and assets (meaning dropsuits, weapons, vehicles, etc.) need to be carried over to Legion, otherwise they feel their time was wasted. If skills or assets aren't applicable in Legion, the points for that skill should be refunded in terms of raw unallocated SP, and for the assets, should be returned in terms of ISK. Really, at least in my opinion, if this happens the players who transfer their characters should start with all of their SP unallocated and all of their assets returned to them in the form of ISK, allowing them to explore the new game's skills and items for the start of the new game for themselves. 3. If the decision is made to release Legion back to the PlayStation community later in the future, DUST players that transferred to the PC (or if they decided to start brand new) should have a way to transfer back to their PlayStation. Honestly, it's the platform we want to play on, and if we follow you to the PC, allow us to go back to our preferred platform if this becomes applicable. 4. There should be some kind of compensation or reward for the people who do stick around with you after DUST. Figure out a way you can celebrate their continued support in Legion. There should be something special these people get as a reward for effectively beta-testing Legion for you by playing DUST. 5. We need to know that you've learned from your mistakes and that you will try to avoid them in the future. 6. Legion needs to be released in full. No more "beta-testing" for the players. We've done it for two years now. I think we're ready for a full game. These are my thoughts. I feel that if you can accomplish that list of 6 things, you'd be able to salvage relations with that "off-the-fence" group, and you'd make the happy ones happier. Thanks for the time, Kondor
Kondor Pendragon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2014.05.05 04:35:00 - [3] - Quote Well noted. The message I was trying to send, however, was that we've been testing their ideas for however long its been now. When they go into full release with Legion, it's my opinion that at least most of the core needs to be there straight off the bat instead of releasing a halfway completed game like they did with DUST. All the stuff they're talking about now has been talked about for the lifespan of DUST. Things like a player market, true connection to EVE, and things like PVE need to be in the first iteration of the officially launched game. I completely understand there will need to be some testing done.
Kondor Pendragon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 34	Posted - 2014.05.05 05:36:00 - [4] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: Kondor Pendragon wrote: Almost everything I wanted to say. You saved me a lot of typing. I'm in the 3rd group too, but what about the 2nd? For whatever reason, CCP decided not to make good on their original promises, so a partial refund of the money they spent seems reasonable and would help patch things up with their angry customers. I know some are saying nothing short of a full refund and the sacrifice of CCP's firstborn will make things right, but be honest: you've never had plans that fell through? And you had at least a little fun while playing. Isn't that worth some money? (Obviously, if one took this option their Dust character would not be transferred to Legion.) I don't have a solution for Group 2. I really don't. A refund of money would be nice, but I very seriously doubt that's going to happen. And frankly, there's really nothing CCP can do to fully reconcile the situation with people who belong to Group 2.
Kondor Pendragon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.05.05 07:05:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Ryan Noir wrote: I would suggest one thing however, instead of focusing on working legion into the PC, take that and apply it toward Dust, assure the PS3 community that you are committed to the product by ensuring you will strongly look into deploying this to PS4. Fix the issues with Dust first, Legion isn't in a deployment state yet, so no need to rush getting that work done. Keep at least a good 80% of the dust team working on Dust and not Legion, in between major updates you can work on Legion. There needs to be an assurance that you will continue to provide a huge majority of dust resources to working on that game not project legion. I don't think I agree with this. Dust was already living on borrowed time the moment it because a PS3 game. The PS3 is about to become outmoded pretty damn soon and its hardware is just no longer enough to help Dust become the game we all once hoped it would become. Therefore to devote 80% of the team to a game that is already entering retirement is not the best use of resources in my opinion. Once Hilmar gives the green light, at the very least there needs to be about 50%-60% of the team working on Legion and then slowly growing to 80%-90% while downsizing the team for Dust over time. Besides, I have already decided to no longer play Dust on the PS3 as my character is now on cold storage waiting for the inevitable transfer to PC. I would agree with this, as well. It's already been stated that pretty much the only work that will be done on DUST are bug fixes, maybe some balance issues, and mostly just keeping it running. In my opinion, as frustrated with this situation as I am, if and when Legion is given the go-ahead, only minimal staff should be put toward keeping DUST running. The rest of the effort should be focused on getting Legion created to the best of their ability and out the door as soon as possible. Don't put an unnecessary amount of staff on DUST duty when they already know they've condemned it. Instead, make the game that you were always trying to make as fast and with as much quality as possible. An official death date of DUST should be under consideration, as well. No need to drag it out. Of course, this is if they decide their course of action to be the complete and total replacement of DUST with Legion and to wipe it off the books.
Kondor Pendragon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 49	Posted - 2014.05.05 19:41:00 - [6] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Kondor Pendragon wrote: ... 2. Character transfer needs to happen. Skill points, ISK and assets (meaning dropsuits, weapons, vehicles, etc.) need to be carried over to Legion, otherwise they feel their time was wasted. If skills or assets aren't applicable in Legion, the points for that skill should be refunded in terms of raw unallocated SP, and for the assets, should be returned in terms of ISK. Really, at least in my opinion, if this happens the players who transfer their characters should start with all of their SP unallocated and all of their assets returned to them in the form of ISK, allowing them to explore the new game's skills and items for the start of the new game for themselves. Without this, CCP's vision of New Eden as persistent, will be undermined. Depends on the route they want to take with Legion. If they want to consider it to be a continuance of DUST, then your statement would be correct. If they want to just scrap DUST and start fresh, then there would be no need to transfer. However, it'd be a sign of good faith for CCP to be able to assure a character transfer and allow those that have given two years to the vision of DUST, and now Legion, to continue their progress from where they left off. And personally, I don't intend to start over from scratch for a game I've been investing time and effort in. I don't think I'll find myself playing Legion if I can't continue my progress from where I left off, since Legion is the game we were supposed to have with DUST.